|As mentioned earlier Han Marie's
spiritual "career" started with the Parzival prophesy. That took place
in 1972. Now, in 2012 his 12 years of writing comes to a close. He brought a stage of life
to an end, in which he considered the "written word" an essential element to his
teaching. He payed a price for that though. Many years in which necessarily the mind - as
mediator - was heavily involved. Hence, he needs a time for "kicking the habit".
It is like Jesus going into the desert. In the future there will be only the Cosmic
Mother. His life will be spent between surrender and sharing. Through surrender he is
taking refuge in the Bottomlessness of the Mother, the "Vessel of Abundance",
sharing the received Grace with all and everybody. Just before his (temporary) retirement,
I managed to make an appointment for an interview with him. On the phone I told him that I
would take a tough stand. Emphasis would lay on how he thinks he will come to the open in
the near future. He laughed saying: "at least with you the Truth may come out". This
is part 2 of a larger interview.
From HanMariepedia, the spiritual encyclopedia
Q. Han Marie, after our nice talk
some weeks ago, could we now turn to the specifics of your teaching?
A. With pleasure. Since this teaching is a
breakthrough it needs patience to explain it again and again. It is a major part of my
Q. Why you emphasize that your
teaching is a breakthrough? Look at the millions who practice yoga, the tens of thousands
who are involved in mindfulness, qigong etc. Does the world still need a new approach?
A. Whatever spiritual practice you pursue,
it is the motivation behind that is decisive. The latter determines if your path is
spiritual or pseudo-spiritual....
Q. Could you elaborate?
A. It can be traced back to the origin of
patriarchal religions. At a certain moment men refused to be part of everyday life and
started their "quest for eternity". Or, like Buddhist say "their escape
from the cycle of birth and death". Rather than living in harmony with the universe,
"salvation", "liberation" and personal freedom became the dominating
Q. Something that is still the case
A. Right. It is personal wellbeing, that
motivates a vast majority to join yoga classes, mindfulness or qigong practises. While
they think their path is very spiritual, in reality it comes down to using
"spirituality" for their own ego-interests.
|The Global Crisis
||A New Step in Evolution
||A New Teaching
||(Eco)Spirituality, Culture Renewal, Psychology,
||24 Source Books
Q. Like optimizing
your performance, improving your career chances, reducing your stress-levels, striving for
A. It doesn't mean this is all bad. If your
starting point is suffering and inner chaos, it is justified to try to improve your
situation. The point is: because the "outside" world's demands are limitless,
your ego-desires are limitless too, your self-centered practice will never transform
itself to a higher level.
Q. Which is?
A. It is very ironical. While in fomer days
"freedom" was sought in "escaping from the Whole", nowadays true
spirituality is exactly the opposite: an alienated ego, that has to become part of the
Whole, once again.
Q. It means a shift
in paradigm of 180 degrees!
A. The point is that the ego cannot
liberate itself. Lucky are those, who are discovering this.
Q. Unfortunately, the masses have not yet
A. Because of their ego-ambitions they have become
an important support to the current life-contempting socio-economic system, despite all
nice words about "creating a better world"..
Q. Hence the necessity of a fundamental
A. If you come to this point, then you are already
"saved". Once you let it down into your innermost core, a "sacred
restlessness" will take possession of you.
Q. My own disappointments with my
ego-attempts helped me a lot.
A. The more ego-disasters in your life, the better.
The pain of being a failure, prevents you from going on repeating the same thing all over
again. You start looking for something bigger than the ego, something to surrender your
Q. The ego is pain.
A. Only when you had enough painful experiences, due
to be identified with you self-centered atttitude, being locked up in your small self, to
live a life of vicious circles, everything making you increasingly mad, yes, that is a
good pre-requisite, indeed.
Q. Still no need for "liberation?"
A. Very clever question. Crucial is to realize the
true nature of your problem. Is it just "being unhappy" with the desire to
become happy? Or do you need a deeper insight into yourself, e.g. what is ego?
Q. Without insight into your problem no
A. Indeed. Just defining the ego as
self-centeredness or "identification with your self-image" is not enough. More
questions have to be asked. How did it happen? If you don't, if you reduce you
problem to a single category (self-centeredness), then the ego's "solution" is
Q. Trying to become enlightened.
A. To have insight into the origination of ego as
our culture's main pillar, it is necessary to know its history. Initially, it was the
breaking away of the male self from the inclusivity of the Cosmic Mother. In later
centuries followed by the oppression of the Church, destroying the remainders of
"pagan" culture. By doing so - a terror that lasted many centuries - all ties
with "Heaven, earth and the community" were cut. The only option left was to
fall back on the only faculty that wasn't affected: the ego.
Q. The result an alienated entity....
A. Your identity as a separate entity, cut off from
its context - Heaven, earth and the community - that is ego.
Q. Instead identifying itself with its own
A. That comes very much to the core of the matter.
We have replaced our Existential Reality by our own ego-projections, cumulating in the
artificial world of today.
Q. "Liberation" thus doesn't mean
designing some new nice goal, even if it is Enlightenment, but becoming part of life, once
A. Well said, that's why becoming part of the Whole,
once again, is the real solution to our problem. This isn't popular, though. People prefer
to "to strive for Enlightenment", logically, because this comes forth out of
ego-ambition! If it means giving up your ego, then people become less enthusiastic...
Q. Maybe because the ego and its artificial
world have become such strong allies nowadays...
A. Let me explain. The human mind moves between
Eternal Space on the one hand and identification with the ego on the other (and everything
in between: e.g. awareness, Satori). Eternal Space can be realized by feeling the backside
of your body (that's why saints are portrayed with a halo on the BACK side of their
heads!), while the ego is "located" at the frontside. The surprise: being one
with the Divine Space (backside), the ego ceases as separate entity. Being on the other
hand identified with the ego (frontside), you loose contact with Eternity. It appears that
these two poles exclude each other!
Q. This is something to contemplate on!
A. The stronger the ego-forces - thoughts, images,
emotions and desires - all appearing IN FRONT of us, the more we are pulled out of our
center, simultaneously loosing our contact with our inherent Divine Nature, which
"rests in the BEHIND".
Q. Like the current addictions to the
A. "Normally", a single thought is enough
to pull our awareness out of its "center". This our awareness is so weak, that
the majority of people have no idea about it. They don't know who they are. What about the
uninterrupted tsunami of emotionally charged images, produced by the electronic media?
They are so strong, that you are PERMANENTLY absorbed by them. While you think your mind
is very much alive.....in Realty, because of being cut off from your Inner Space - the
Source of all inherent, natural life - your mind is frozen, rigid, mute, paralysed.
The problem is: when you never ever felt your inner Life before, you won't realize that
you are dead.
Q. While people thinking of themselves, that
they represent the crown of human civilization...
A. Do you need more proof of how deep we have sunk?
Q. Then, the "virtual world" is
like a new religion, having everybody under its spell.
A. A well-known caricature depics three children on
a daytour with their mother. While the mother tries to call attention to the warmth of the
sun, the beauty of the blossoms and the spectacular mountains at the horizon, the children
are totally absorbed by their iPads, just muttering under their breath: "yea mum, yea
Q. Loosing contact with Reality, does it
mean the world is lost?
A. Let's assume very soon the "virtual
world" is going to dominate life, like it is already the case with our
children.....Once being addicted by the artificial one, you won't care about the real
anymore. You have become a zombie in a realm that is steered by one-dimensionality,
leading to Angst and Aggression, eventually to a collective burn-out. Evolutionary
medicine tells us, that we are part of the natural world, though. Without it (wo)mankind
will not survive.
Q. Until now it doesn't seem, that
"spirituality" is showing (wo)mankind the way out....
A. Here is the connection with current
"spiritual" practice. If people exchange one obsession (ego) by another
("liberation"), nothing has changed for the better. It is the reason why this
kind of (pseudo)spirituality has such a happy marriage with the individualistic and
materialistic forces of current capitalism.
Q. If the ego cannot save you, despite all
its efforts, what can?
A. It cannot, because of its efforts. E.g.
you want to get rid of your stress. Even the thought is already enough to create
additional stress. A more dramatic example. The Buddha saw the suffering of the world
around him and (his ego) decided.....to devote his life to overcome suffering. He
A. To wake up is certainly a decisive step in
emancipation. When it wants to become fruitful though, a second step has to be taken: to
become part of "Heaven, earth and the (new) community", once again.
Q. Is there still hope?
A. A "civilization" based on extreme
egoism has no future. Sooner or later (sooner) major disasters will increase, a sudden
collapse of the system is likely. Hopefuls are those who give up their ego's, together
with abandoning the corresponding socio-economic structures. Because the ego not being
able to give itself up by itself, "something" beyond has to be found, something
to which the ego has no answer.
Q. Something that doesn't give the ego any
chance to identify itself with....
A. Right. As you know, the only Realm that can
"achieve" this, is Absolute Nothingness. The turning point happened in 1977,
when it - as Cosmic Mother - revealed Herself to me. In Her Bottomlessness your ego
disappears, while you will be reborn as your True Self. In my case it was the unique
Threefold Cosmic Realization. Everybody who takes refuge in Her, is going to be renewed,
be it a smaller or bigger breakthrough.
Q. Spiritual renewal at the base of social
A. Oh, yes. It is perfectly clear that only
New People can create a New World.
Q. The climate disaster makes this only much
A. There is only one answer to this: "We are
the environmental crisis". Nature has nothing to do with it. Obviously, forests have
to be preserved, and bio-diversity protected. The danger is that we project our own inner
problem into the outside world.
Q. What would be your answer then?
A. The decisive step for all conscious people is to
overcome their individualism, while creating alliances with other "soulmates".
Our hope can only come from community-building. I personally stimulate the creation of
spiritual communities ("Healing Communities") based on three pillars:
"taking refuge in the Origin, a daily "monastic" schedule and serving
others". Like in the Dark Ages these "monastic centres" could become a
first step to transforming society.
Q. What do you expect of women? Could they
play a decisive role here?
A. Tricky question. Twenty years ago we in the West
had still some hope, that women would play a major role in transforming Self and Society.
That hope is gone. Western women (I don't speak of women in Non-Western countries) focus
entirely on developing their male (ego!) part. To a certain extent this is good.
Q. What is not so good?
A. "Modern women" are only interested in
their personal careers, and lost any criticism toward the exploitative system they live
in. These women have become major supporters of the current growth-obesessed and
consumerist society. Men on the other hand....(I say it reluctantly) "have seen it
all" (career etc.). They therefore tend to be more open to alternatives.
Q. What could be your role in these most
critical of times?
A. I feel eternally grateful to the Cosmic Mother
for having chosen me as the vehicle for Her Revelation. Through it my responsibility is
limitless. Every day I am confronted by my limited abilities to put everything She granted
to me, into practice. I feel limited by all kinds of factors within and without. Comparing
it with what has to be done nowadays to "Heal the Planet", I often feel totally
Q. Does that makes you sad?
A. Sometimes I long for more involvement in the
events of the world. More contact with real people. On the other hand my life is that of a
"hermit", living a life in close contact with the Origin. One doesn't necessary
exclude the other, of course. I also fully take into account that my teachings will be
picked up only after my death. It is the reason for this website's size. I have put in
everything that seemed relevant.
Q. On the other hand you are well aware of
your universal calling e.g. mission...
A. People don't realize that I came forward only
after some 33 years since my Great Experiences. My life is thus quite different from
those, who after an initial (smaller or bigger) breakthrough (or not even that!)
immediately proclaim themselves as a spiritual teacher.
Q. This is intrigueing, please tell us more.
A. After ten years of uninterrupted Bliss, including
some more Realizations, the intensity of THAT became less. It withdrew, only to stay in
the background. Through its withdrawal I was exposed to some very stubborn emotional
complexes, which in all those ten years, without me realizing it, had not entirely
Q. Whaw, that certainly was a
A. It was. It was the proof of the fact that even
after the most complete Cosmic Realization the ego comes back.
Q. No "Once Enlightened, always
Enlightened" as some claim.
A. Once you had a major breakthrough IT will always
stay with you. Only, you won't always be fully absorbed by it. Sooner or later you are
"thrown back" on more common levels of Being, including being identified with
Q. Back to zero....
A. Yes, in a way, and at that time I consciously
chose to do so. I realized that this is reality as it is. Rather than clinging to
Enlightenment (the greatest temptation to all who attained some kind of Satori), I
realized that not Realization, but Wholeness is the ultimate aim of the Path. With other
words, only if your personality, your small self, is fully integrated, you are qualified
to start spiritual teaching. This period of integration is called the "Dark Night of
the Soul". In my case it lasted some 20 years.
Q. Making you humble rather than
A. As Maitreya Buddha puts it: "Realizing my
imperfections of the past, I have come (to earth) as a common man".
Q. You often talk about your Mission. Don't
you have an organization to support you?
A. The power of my "Mission" is to bring
the Reality of the Mother closer to the everyday reality of people. The more direct they
make contact with each other, the more beneficial it will be. Everything unnecessary that
might come in between only distracts from the Essence. The first pre-requisite is that the
Servant-Teacher doesn't accumulate irrelevant things. Hence, from the very beginning I
have never had an organization, never accumulated money or wealth, never had a center etc.
In the near future I will certainly be very grateful to everyone who supports me in my
basic needs, though: housing, food, travel....
Q. You think your website has been completed
A. A most satisfying thing is, that my life exactly
reflects the Vision I received in 1974. After an initial period of 10 years of Bliss, I
had to start sharing everything selflessly. It took more than 12 years to write everything
down. I had to pay a price for it, though, because inevitably a great deal of mind was
involved all the time. I am happy that this is behind me now. The period to come, I simply
live a life of unity with the Cosmic Mother. I will be not in between anymore, which is a
Q. What will be the core of your teaching?
A. Two things are complementary: the teaching
directly from the Heart and the necessary amount of knowledge supporting it. The former is
realized through "live" meetings with all those who are sincere, while the
latter can be read in the website. Central in the teaching are "to return to the
Origin in order to become renewed", "to become part of the Whole - Heaven, earth
and the (new) community, once again" - and the "commitment to Healing the
Q. Could you elaborate?
A. A most favorable situation is that, in which you
are with your back against the wall. You tried every ego-trick to help you out of life's
impasse, but nothing worked. Even spiritual practice didn't give the liberation you hoped
for. So you are quite desperate. With every road blocked there appears only one opening
left: unconditional ego-surrender to the Cosmic Mother.
Q. I feel a shivering in my body, probably,
because not having a choice anymore, brings intensity back into my life!
A. "Jai Mata Di" (may the Mother prevail)
is an old Indian outburst of joy. That is what I feel rightnow.
Q. But this is only the beginning, I
A. Most "paths of liberation" stop with
the birth of your New Self. For us on the other hand it is the beginning. In various
aspects. Surrender to the Mother isn't a one time affair. Because the ego is constantly
returning (even if it once "died"), our prayers to the Mother become daily
practice. Very soon it becomes your "first nature", an expression of belonging,
exceeding any self-created goal (like giving up your ego).
Q. Beautiful! What started as a problem
becomes a celebration of life, the joy of being part of Reality, once again.
A. Very much so. You have found the "Fountain
of Renewal" - also called the Grail, symbol for the Cosmic Womb - and
"nothing" (....) can take Her Nothingness from you. Have you ever dreamt that
Nothingness would become your greatest treasure? You cannot possess it, the ego has become
what it should be: a servant, you owe everything to Her and nobody can take Her from
Q. Nothingness is everywhere...
A. It seems, you got the taste of IT already
Q. But isn't what She grants you the Eternal
A. The Eternal Light - the Divine, God - is Her
Light Body, Her first emanation. The miracle is, that surrendering to the Darkness of the
Cosmic Womb, the Light will be bestowed upon you. This is not a "personal gift".
It is simply the consequence of the fact that you submitted yourself to "Cosmic
Law". The quality of the Light might differ considerably, though, from simply
becoming aware to full-blown Enlightenment.
Q. What is the difference with the
"normal" practice of meditation?
A. First of all, in the beginning self-effort is
recommendable. Long ago I myself have been sitting (Zen) five times a day. Sooner or later
your efforts increasingly become frustrated. Effort comes from ego, hence, the harder you
try, the stronger your ego becomes. It is the moment to acknowledge the limits of it,
entrusting yourself to the Mother. The difference is, that from that moment on, the Mother
is doing the job for you!
Q. The Path of Effortlessness?
A. Surrender is effortless, provided your trust in
the Mother is limitless. Later in the process, when actively facilitating your re-entry
into the Whole, you become Her helper ("mother's little helper" gets a new
meaning here....big laugh). There are many ways of "Restoring the Harmony with
Heaven, Earth and the (new) Community". Everybody is invited to find out which way is
Q. Do you offer help, once people are in
A. Self-evidently, yes. Because of individual
differences, possibilities and needs I designed several ways, practices and techniques.
They all can be found in this website. Some of them I offer in the meetings, as well.
Q. What is the outcome of this second step
of the Path?
A. You have become a New Man/A New Woman, not living
life from the perspective of the ego, anymore, but from the perspective of the Whole. With
your Spirit as part of Heaven, with your body as part of the earth and with your
"soul" as part of the (new) community.
Q. Even this step is not the ultimate one,
you once told me.
A. That's right. Some - if not all - will feel the
need to actively committing him/herself to what I called "Cosmic Mother Healing the
Planet". It takes into account, that the majority of (wo)mankind is living in
abominal circumstances and this without their fault. It is a ruthless socio-economic
system, forced upon them by the "enlightened" people of the North, which drives
them in ever greater despair: hunger, wars, environmental pollution, epidemics and much
more. In this regard, it is good to realize, that the Mother isn't there for a small group
of "chosen ones" only, but for all and everybody. As Her representatives on
earth, we have an obligation to solidarize ourselves with the weakest among us.
Q. In order to facilitate this, you
have designed 10 Steps.
A. Ten different steps, yes, making it possible for
everybody to step in there, where one's strength lies, varying from A New Cosmology to A
New Economy, to A New Education to A New Earth. For a complete overview, please go back to
the index page.
Q. Good idea.
A. Wishing you a very meaningful life as a Servant
to the Whole, I pray to the Mother She is going to give you all the wisdom, love and
strength you need in accomplishing your mission. And who knows "maybe we will meet
Okay for today?
Q. More than that, thank you!
A. It's Nothing (....).
JAI MATA DI!
(May the Mother prevail)